"WitchCraft" and Judaism

[jimmyRRpage]

first off, I hope no one minds, but I'd like to open up a couple threads on some Jewish perspective essays and such I get from aish.com

In this one, it is proof that, as much as I love my religion, there are things about Judaism and ideals in Judaism that I find distasteful and wrong simply because of the generalizations made by these ideals. The following essay, written by Rabbi Ahron Lopiansky, comes to mind:

www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Witchcraft_and_Judaism.asp

Now I could understand if it's speaking about devil-worship and black magic in particular, but it generalizes all forms, assuming all Wiccan religions are the same. This, as I have learned, is wrong, and I am drafting an email to the Rabbi to:
1. Show him sites which I hope will open his mind, including, with Debbie's and Creator's permission, of course, this forum (I'll ask him to play nice, lol... ;D)
2. Open his mind to philosophies and religions such as Thelema, to show that not all forms of Wicca (in fact, not most forms of Wicca) are what he denounces.

As far as I'm concerned, there are things the Torah/Talmud got wrong, and this is one of them.

Your thoughts?

[Thorn]

My thoughts:

I can't access the link from work, but I wanted to clarify some terminology for you. Witchcraft and Wicca are not the same thing. Wicca is a single, specific religion. There are various "denominations" if you will, but Wicca is Wicca.

Witchcraft is a more generic term usually meaning the practice of magic, or non-ceremonial magic.

A Wiccan can be, and usually is, a witch (though there is a new trend among some recent variations to cut the magic out altogether.) A witch isn't necessarily wiccan.

I think the term you're looking for is "Pagan." It's an umbrella tern, covering a lot of very diverse religions. It's usually used to refer to polytheistic faiths but could also mean pretty much anything that's not Judeo-Christian-Islam. (Or Judeo-Christian-Islam-Hindu-Buddhist...)

Anyway, I am a pagan, and I am a witch. I am SO not Wiccan.

And Thelema, while a magical path and possibly a pagan one (though it mixes Kabbalah with its Kemeticism), is not witchcraft (except in the broadest "Hey! Look! Magic(k)!" sense) and certainly not Wicca.

[jimmyRRpage]

thorn said:

My thoughts:

I can't access the link from work, but I wanted to clarify some terminology for you. Witchcraft and Wicca are not the same thing. Wicca is a single, specific religion. There are various "denominations" if you will, but Wicca is Wicca.

Witchcraft is a more generic term usually meaning the practice of magic, or non-ceremonial magic.

A Wiccan can be, and usually is, a witch (though there is a new trend among some recent variations to cut the magic out altogether.) A witch isn't necessarily wiccan.

I think the term you're looking for is "Pagan." It's an umbrella tern, covering a lot of very diverse religions. It's usually used to refer to polytheistic faiths but could also mean pretty much anything that's not Judeo-Christian-Islam. (Or Judeo-Christian-Islam-Hindu-Buddhist...)

Anyway, I am a pagan, and I am a witch. I am SO not Wiccan.

And Thelema, while a magical path and possibly a pagan one (though it mixes Kabbalah with its Kemeticism), is not witchcraft (except in the broadest "Hey! Look! Magic(k)!" sense) and certainly not Wicca.

That's part of my problem with the article. This I know. The article, and Judaism in and of itself, lumps all of that into Witchcraft. that's why I have an issue with it.

This Rabbi and other Jewish zealots, like all monotheistic zealots, believe that if it's in the bible and they read it, they know all. So, if it isn't either Jewish, Christian, or Islam, then it must be Pagan, so it's evil and against the bible and we can't support it. That was my point in bringing it up.

[Thorn]

Ah, I see. It was your use of this phrase:

assuming all Wiccan religions are the same

That confused me, since the religions he's talking about aren't Wiccan (well, except, of course, for those that are.) I'm assuming, then, that the phrase was his and not yours?

I don't know that you can educate this type of person. It's a bit like banging your head against a brick wall. But if you're up to trying, I see no harm - you're young, the inevitable frustration should affect your blood pressure too much.

[jimmyRRpage]

thorn said:

Ah, I see. It was your use of this phrase:

assuming all Wiccan religions are the same

That confused me, since the religions he's talking about aren't Wiccan (well, except, of course, for those that are.) I'm assuming, then, that the phrase was his and not yours?

I don't know that you can educate this type of person. It's a bit like banging your head against a brick wall. But if you're up to trying, I see no harm - you're young, the inevitable frustration should affect your blood pressure too much.

He's the one assuming... I mean... yes, it's his, not mine. I know not all the listed religions are wiccan and vice-versa. He thinks otherwise.

And you are right. It is like talking to a brick wall. I do want to try, because there are some gross generalizations in this article that I have discovered to be absolutely incorrect. And you're right. My blood pressure isn't bad enough to be severely affected, yet, so I'm safe, lol.

[pablo]

Hi

I think thatthe good rabbi needs to speak to a lot more practioners than the nil he has to date. He is totally ignorant of the facts of the bulk of magical practioners in the west.

It is no secret that the majority of occultists are gnostics and follow a path that leads to a secret understanding of god and a secret realtionship thereto. It may be that god is not gender specific but more of a numinous thing as per the qabalistic entity assoiated with Kether but that does not materially detract from the point.

This leads on to my second point.

Satanists, wiccans and 95% of witches of all hues are heavily influenced by GD style magic. Anyone that does not believe should merely read La Vey, Spare, Crowley Saunders and Aquino. Of course it does help if you have read the "Kabalah denudata" .

Isn't Qabala Jewish? What of the earliest grimoirse like the Sepher Ha Ratziel?

THE more I write this piece the angrier I am getting because all he is preaching is "my way or the highway".

If I had not become an "Occultist" I woul dhave probably been a junkie? orin a madhouse because some of the phenomena that I experienced did not have any explanation from any orthodox religion Including Judiaism. It was only when I started investigating my own that things started to make sense.

Now to get to the Yoruba religion. THe yorubas believe in Oludumare who is the male creator god who created all of the nome gods it seems to me that this is a gnostic viewpoint.

This isn't the first time that an investigation into the occult has yielded such poor results and superficial thought. I am fed up of these simpletons filling the worlds with such empty chatter.

Pablo

[pablo]

I have just posted my comments to the Rabbi. My daughter is awaiting confirmation of her jewishness ancestry an d has been amazed by the misconduct of Rabbis!

[jimmyRRpage]

Believe me, pablo, I share your frustration. People like this are quite annoying. Some of his article are very good, too, but this one is ridiculous, and he obviously believe he knows it because he read it in the Torah, which is not true. Unfortunately, they exist in all religions, political parties... you find them everywhere.

You do what you can, right?