Judaism

[jimmyRRpage]

There is a thread about Kabbalah, or Jewish Mysticism, but this one is for Judaism itself. Its different branches, the laws, the teachings, The Torah.... Anything you want or need to know about it, that's what this thread is for.

True, this can be a touchy subject some times, but as long as the questions are respectful, then we shouldn't have a problem.

[Summer]

I have often wondered if the Torah is just the Old Testament of the King James version of the bible, or if there is more to it than that?

[Creator]

Well, the Torah is the original scriptures and the Bible's "Old Testament" is partly a translation from the Hebrew.

Here are two links that I have found very useful when looking for information on Judaism:

www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=614&o=190
judaism.about.com/od/asktherabbi/

[jimmyRRpage]

I would like to post this link. It is a very good article written by Rabbi Shraga Simmons on why Jews do not believe in Jesus. It is not meant as a challenge to Christianity. It is meant simply as an educational document.

Here is the link:

Why don't Jews Believe in Jesus?

[michael]

well to begin with, the Torah is not the Old Testament.

The Torah is the 5 books of Moses.

and nothing has been distorted.
when you read a book written in another language, sometimes you have to peer closer into certain words, that isn't difficult, it's just part of it.
no big deal.

[jimmyRRpage]

michael said:

well to begin with, the Torah is not the Old Testament.

The Torah is the 5 books of Moses.

and nothing has been distorted.
when you read a book written in another language, sometimes you have to peer closer into certain words, that isn't difficult, it's just part of it.
no big deal.

I would like to disagree with you here. When you look into deeper into certain words when translating, you ultimately come up with the same term, or translation, of that word, but with a deeper meaning. However, to distort/mistranslate, you have to literally change the translation/meaning of the word either unintentionally or on purpose but without the general knowledge, and even consent, of those people who have been taught to translate that word in the original (and assumed correct) way.

Now, I don't mean to get egotistical for Judaism, here, but I always hold that the people who created the language know their language best, and the Jews created the language of both Aramaic and Hebrew (or if, you believe strictly in the faith, God gave Jews both languages, and taught it too them).

The perfect example is the word "alma." This word has always meant "young woman," but Cristian theologists changed the word to mean virgin birth.

(Please note, in the following statement, and in most to all of my statements regarding Christianity, I do not lump every single Christian or Christian-believer on this Planet together. I am referring mostly to the fanatical sects of Christianity

And, BTW, the ideal of the virgin birth is a Pagan one. While I mean nothing by that, it is significant considering Christianity's hatred of anything Pagan. They do not like Pagans, yet their version of the birth of Jesus is based on the Pagan idea that women can be impregnated by gods. In fact, if you look at the Christian religion, it is filled with theologies based on Pagan ideals. Granted, this is true for most, if not all, of today's monotheistic religions, but it is rather ironic when it's true of a religion that would see the disappearance of every Pagan religion (along with most other religions).


And finally, I believe that a more accurate translation of the Old Testament can be found with Judaism, because our "Old Testament" (which, as you already pointed out, consists of a lot more than the Torah) has been translated only from Aramaic to Hebrew to English, where the Christian version took a form of the following path:

Aramaic -> Hebrew -> Latin -> Greek -> Roman -> only God knows how many other languages -> English -> even more languages only God can know

Now, that is definitely not completely accurate, but, from what I have learned, is fairly close. There is a much bigger margin of error in the Christian Bible than in the Jewish Bible.







*Now, again, I note, these are all my opinions. I mean no offense by them, and I do not in any way express them as a truth for anyone more than myself. It is simply how I feel on the subject. So if anyone is offended by my comments, I truly do apologize. But please be aware that this is how I feel about the Christian religion. Yes, my opinions are influenced by the fact that the most tolerant Christians I know are my mom's parents, and beyond that I have encountered very little tolerance, and a lot of ignorance and arrogance, among Christians. As I said before, I do not lump all Christians in with my opinions about the religion, as I know not every Christian is this bad. I have mostly encountered the fanatical ones, and those are the ones I refer to.

And on a separate note, I like to put these disclaimers because what I say can be rather controversial, and I actually got in trouble for it at one forum because they thought I was presenting my opinions as "The Ultimate Truth," so now I make these disclaimers in hopes that even if I offend someone, I can avoid the issues of getting in trouble for trying to offend, and that person I offended can know I truly meant no offense, and that this is simply how I feel.

[pablo]

Jimmy

I enjoyed your comments. Please note that you are (or should be) around friends here and just go ahead and tell your truth without needing to prove your lack of anti-Xtian sentiments.

Peace out

Pablo

[pablo]

Jimmy

I have seen the interlinear translation of the bible and found it to be of some interest. this translation has each page divided into the hebrew version and the corresponding english translation. It was interesting to look at the book of genesis in such a manner. But frankly I have long given up on Xtians and therefore the bible which I believe is the word of man and definately not God.

What are your thoughts on the interlinear translation?

kind regards

Pablo

[Thorn]

jimmyrrpage said:

And finally, I believe that a more accurate translation of the Old Testament can be found with Judaism, because our "Old Testament" (which, as you already pointed out, consists of a lot more than the Torah) has been translated only from Aramaic to Hebrew to English, where the Christian version took a form of the following path:

Aramaic -> Hebrew -> Latin -> Greek -> Roman -> only God knows how many other languages -> English -> even more languages only God can know.

This isn't true. It's always been the practice of translators to go back to the earliest version available. As I understand it, this was done even in the time of King James. Modern translations aren't just the KJV without the "thees" and "thous." They should actually be more accurate, because earlier texts are available than they were in the 16th (?) century.

So it actually does go Aramaic/Greek (depending on the original language of the book in question) ---> English.

That doesn't mean that the translators didn't skew the translation to fit their particular dogma (girl/virgin or poisoner/witch). Or that I think the Bible or the translations were anything but the work of men. Just, I think it's only fair to give the scholars doing the translation credit for getting the basics right...

[Creator]

pablo said:

Jimmy

I enjoyed your comments. Please note that you are (or should be) around friends here and just go ahead and tell your truth without needing to prove your lack of anti-Xtian sentiments.

Peace out

Pablo

Well said Pablo.

On this messageboard everyones beliefs or disbeliefs are equally respected. Feel free to present your opinions.

[Summer]

Thanks to you Jimmyrrpage, I am learning that there actually is a lot of truth in the Jewish religion. I am interested in Theology, and keep an open mind about different religions, and really think about what they believe in and why. Then I put the information through myself, (my inner and higher being,) and see what of it turns out to be truth for me. But the learning is really interesting to me.

So feel free to state your opinions here, that is what this place is all about. Open, intelligent minded conversations with other like minded individuals. There is no place here for judgement of anyone else's beliefs.

[michael]

here is another example of how there really is no mistranslation going on with any holy book.
sure sometimes maybe a word is zebra into another term that might not make sense
but any person who can actually read, and extract information from a burger king, can easily figure out the original message

the bible isn't misunderstood because it's faulty
it's misunderstood because people are faulty in their ability to extract meaning from information

above you'll notice i used the word zebra and burgerking
those weren't the original words
but you still understood what i was trying to say didn't you?

have you ever tried reading shakespear?
it's hard to understand what he's saying half the time
but some people are smart enough to extract the meaning and understand

the same is true for the bible

just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't the truth,
it just means you don't have the patience or desire to figure it out

i can't figure out shakespear because i have no desire to
but i do understand the bible, it makes perfect sense
and it's undeniable because its code is like a perfect equation 2+2=4

you can debate until your blue in the face that 2+2=3, but that won't make it true.

[pablo]

The trouble with the bible is that so many people have appropriated it for the their own shortcommings that it isa now a highly dubious document.

Some of the worst people on the planet have pounded the bible and claimed to have the right meaning of the words.

Face facts the bible is the word of man.

Methodists, catholics, liberal catholics, baptists all of the sects all claim to have the one right view, the right interpretation plus all of the tin pot individuals who claim to speak to aliens, angels and Saints also claim individual ownership of the truth.

I am not saying that there is no truth in the bible but it is the same as in all other religions hence the bible is nothing special to me.

Pablo

[pablo]

I would love to here more on Judiasm please.

[jimmyRRpage]

pablo said:

I would love to here more on Judiasm please.

Well, what would you like to know? Do you have any particular questions?