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Post by Guest on Oct 10, 2006 12:40:34 GMT -5
I think there are levels of Satanism.
there is basic Satanism which follows the laws of humanism, with a few extras thrown in.
there are the private groups that worship satan and cast spells to hurt people and get personal gain I left and they cast a bad luck spell on me which did affect my life.
then there are the sicko's which you mentioned the human worship ect...
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Post by Summer on Oct 10, 2006 16:02:38 GMT -5
Yes, I do believe unfortunately, that black magick can affect people's lives. I myself, have gone through a lot of black magick sent by my parent's and their group to affect me and my family. It has been really hard for me to get through, but luckily, thanks to a lot of help and the Santeria religion, we are coming through it alright. I hope that you are coming out of your bad time as well.  |
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Post by Guest on Oct 11, 2006 16:39:40 GMT -5
Yes, I do believe unfortunately, that black magick can affect people's lives. I myself, have gone through a lot of black magick sent by my parent's and their group to affect me and my family. It has been really hard for me to get through, but luckily, thanks to a lot of help and the Santeria religion, we are coming through it alright. I hope that you are coming out of your bad time as well. It seems to wax and wane. Just when everything good is going good, wham.... sudden bad luck comes upon me in droves. Its been like that since I left that group and Ive done several circles and cleansing and still have it to a degree. |
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Post by Summer on Oct 12, 2006 16:05:04 GMT -5
You may have to practise a form of self defense everyday for a long time. I know that I did. It can take a long time before the negativity, whatever form that it is sent in, to be banished. I hope that you haven't had to go through what I have had to go through. We actually had spirits sent to us. They were sent to stop me from accomplishing any goals that I set out to accomplish, and to make my life hell. I am hoping that you haven't had to go through this same experience. If you have though, you can pm me, and we can talk about it. You will have to join the board though, as I don't think that guests can pm member's here. I will leave it up to you. I just wanted you to know that we don't judge here, and that you are among other magical people with very open minds. |
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Post by pablo on Oct 20, 2006 6:53:11 GMT -5
Of course the problem with the accounts of Witchcraft in the UK and Europe is there is reference made to a horned god and to a black man. What was the provenance of such a being? Was it a devil or some spiritual being or was it a person impersonating a spiritual being?
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Post by Thorn on Oct 20, 2006 12:22:29 GMT -5
Pablo -
Am I correct in assuming you're referring to reference in the witch trials and confessions, and not worship of actual horned gods such as Pan or Herne?
Most of those confessions, AFAIK, were telling the inquisitor what they wanted to hear, not relating actual events. Considering most Christian's conception of the devil's appearance, the presence in their imaginings of a horned or black man is not particularly surprising.
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Post by pablo on Oct 23, 2006 2:31:41 GMT -5
Thorn,
I am talking about what was discussed between witches and and prospective witches and sympathisers which have been recorded. I tend to ignore confessions mad by torture.
With this kind of information you can never be 100% sure of what exactly happened. New research is however showing that during the time of the witch trials the level of literacy was greater than previously thought and there was a network book printers and booksellers who could and did supply grimoires which were then copied and copied. So the demonic names were around the magical thinking a lot more than previously thought. I going through some of the old personal notebooks of witches and discussions with the traditional cunning folk and there is no reference to the Devil but more of this black and or horned man.
I still find that there is a mystery here but it seems to me that there is always a risk that ideas like Pan can be picked up and assimilated from popular culture. the neopagans have basically adopted a more mediteranean mode of working and even mediternean godnames without batting an eyelid.
This black man or Horned man seems to be a more indigenous British idea that may even be linked with Black Shuck and the Barghest (large black Dogs which seem to be spirit animals).
BB
Pablo
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Post by Thorn on Oct 23, 2006 10:55:11 GMT -5
Pablo,
Is this source material you've read generally available? Or is it something you only have access to because of your position in one organization or another? I wasn't aware such books existed, but I would LOVE to see them.
Religious syncret... syncri... erm, blending seemed to occur where ever cultures met. (The Roman Empire, for example, seemed to adopt whatever gods they needed, or to just decide that, say, Odin was really Mercury in a bad mood.) So the idea that it also happened in the British Isles is easy to believe.
But didn't the Brits have at least one horned god of their own? (I'm thinking Herne, there may be others.) It seems a natural form for a fertility god to take, horns being so phallic.
(Could the black man be related to Annwn, I wonder?)
As for us neo-pagans... As long as we're not claiming to be reconstructionists, I don't see a lot of problems with borrowing from whatever region is appropriate. It just takes a lot of work to make sure everything meshes properly. But I don't want to get started on my "doing ecclectism right" speil. It's way off topic, anyway.
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Post by pablo on Oct 24, 2006 2:29:01 GMT -5
Some of these documents are held in various organisations that i know but some is various museums over here. Given the regional variance it is not easy to say that Herne worship was universal adn did Herne always have horns anyway. But even so why did they not name Herne as their deity?? I fell that there is a lot that can't be resolved in this area but it is fun to examine.
Anyway we all owe the neo-pagan movement someting so there was no slight intended:-)
Anyway the British witches could have used a man in blackface as our Morris dancer are sometimes blacked up for some reason but that is an other topic.
BB
Pablo
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Post by Thorn on Oct 24, 2006 10:36:10 GMT -5
I was only using Herne as an example that I was aware of from Britain, didn't mean to imply he was universal. I don't know of much that was universal among the various peoples of the British Isles. I just meant that horned gods (and occassionally goddesses) were pretty common worldwide and that he was one of them that I was aware of in that region.
It is an interesting mystery. Wish I was over there so I could visit some of those museums. Well, someday... (Between the geneological research and the occult research, I suspect I'm going to bore the heck out of Francis if he ever does take me to Ireland and Britain...)
No slight felt, btw. I guess as an ecclectic witch, I tend to be a little defensive, considering so many people think ecclectic=fluffy, but I really didn't think you were going there. I guess I was just responding for potential spectators?
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Post by Summer on Mar 24, 2007 17:37:24 GMT -5
Although I cannot remember much about the rituals that I used to be taken to in the Satanism when I was little, I believe that the group of Satanist's that I was raised with worship Satan as a deity. I believe that they believe that sometimes he requires human sacrifice in order to appease him. That is just what I've remembered so far.
I met up with an old girlfriend of mine that was also a family friend when I was younger, at a gathering of our teenage parent class from my old highschool. She started talking to me about how she had remembered that she was raised a Satanist, and how she remembered seeing me at some of the rituals that she had gone to. She had also blocked what she had lived through out of her mind according to her, and had since remembered some of the experiences she had lived through. She asked me if I remembered anything like that, and at the time she was talking to me about I could honestly look at her and say that I wasn't sure. I told her that I thought I had had some nightmares about Satanic-like rituals while I was growing up, but that was all that I knew for sure. Somehow my brain just blocked out the memories of the rituals that I went to, but she remembered me being there and told me so. So that woke me up a little bit, and told me that there was a lot more about my childhood that I hadn't remembered yet. What a crazy life I have led.
Even when my old girlfriend was talking to me about her own woes and having to go to deprogramming and counseling because of ritualistic abuse, I felt that I didn't know if I could trust her to admit that I felt I had been raised belonging to a Satanic cult, I just didn't have any of the memories yet to prove it to myself or to anyone else. I am very careful who I talk to about this locally because I cannot tell who is in the cult and who is not. So when a second girlfriend wrote me a letter about remembering what she had been put through as a child, and asking if I remembered it too, I didn't respond. I just didn't feel that I could trust her. That is the fear that you have to learn to deal with when you are raised the way that I was. I have come a long, long way overcoming my fears, which is why I can write about this on this message board.
One of the reasons that I wanted to start this message board is to tell what I do remember of my story being raised by Satanist's and to show as I progress that there IS hope for all of those others who have gone through similar experiences and might not feel strong enough to make it through. I know what it is like to temporarily lose one's sanity because of challenging the wrong people, and suffering through the black magic because of it. I have walked the sad and lonely path of psychic attack for a long lonely time, and can say with assurity that God/Goddess does hear our cries for help when we cry out to him/her and with time spiritual stregnth is given to those of us who are victims of other's evil intentions.
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